00:00:03 Maria MUKHINA: Unfortunately, due to technical reasons, our film critic could not make it. So, I’ll be stepping into his role.
00:00:10 Anatoly IVANOV: Fallen, like a hero!
00:00:13 Maria MUKHINA: Frozen on the way. So, I’ll pretend I don’t know anything and ask some questions to start, and then…
00:00:19 Anatoly IVANOV: So, let me introduce you. A wonderful producer and, recently, the distributor of the film “Kvadrat” — Maria Mukhina.
00:00:35 Anatoly IVANOV: It was originally her brilliant idea to show “Kvadrat” in Russia more professionally than we attempted with Pushkarev. And this is just the beginning. Because she constantly has some crazy plans in her head to fill the Russian space. Including Saint Petersburg, Novosibirsk, and beyond. Whereas we simply… We made the film and initially started showing it in Europe. Primarily in Germany.
00:01:14 Maria MUKHINA: Many years ago.
00:01:15 Anatoly IVANOV: Many years ago, in 2013. And in Russia, since, unfortunately, it is very difficult to organize something, to obtain basic distribution certificates that are easily obtained in France or again in Germany.
00:01:30 Maria MUKHINA: Yes, the idea, in general, arose a year ago. And for a whole year, we worked to make it possible to gather you all here. Because first, we needed one document, then another document. Then we waited for someone to sign some document. And only then could we pick a date, so that all the wonderful men who made this film could be here and start answering your questions.
00:01:53 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes, and therefore, Pushkarev, who… We chose how long in advance? 2 months, so that everything aligned with the CFC where we are now, and, most challenging, with Pushkarev’s nonstop touring schedule. And what you just saw hasn’t really changed since then. That is, he is now somewhere…
00:02:18 Public: In Berlin.
00:02:19 Anatoly IVANOV: In Berlin. And before that, he was flying on the same A320 or A321. So it was very difficult for us to synchronize it so that I could fly in and Pushkarev could be here.
00:02:37 Maria MUKHINA: He could only make it to the first screening. This one is completely extra, we didn’t plan it, but everyone really wanted to come and kept asking, so… After screening on April 6, we decided to agree to this one.
00:02:52 Maria MUKHINA: So tell me, why is the film called “Kvadrat”? It's a traditional question, but it always intrigues everyone.
00:03:01 Anatoly IVANOV: There are many reasons. The first reason is that the life of a DJ turned out to be completely square. That is, he selects the records he will play. Then he flies somewhere. So, two sides of the square. Then he plays them. Then flies again. Again selects records. Flies again. Plays them again. This endless run around, this square run, is present in the profession — quite repetitive and monotonous, I would say. This is the main reason. It’s a geometric shape that is closest to a circle. And the second reason is in Russian or Russian techno slang, a square — is the 4/4 time signature used in techno.
00:04:04 Anatoly IVANOV: Who has been involved in music? Plays, or used to play any instruments, raise your hands!
00:04:12 Anatoly IVANOV: Nice! Everyone here is such a musician. Wonderful.
00:04:14 Maria MUKHINA: An educated audience.
00:04:15 Anatoly IVANOV: So, 4/4. And usually, a musical phrase in techno music comes in at least 4 — a square. Then we go: 8, 16, and so on. And this square, “hit the square,” when you mix two tracks, that is, two vinyls, you have to “hit the square.” Otherwise, it turns into a mess. But now, some manage to miss the beat, so the strong beat hits the weak one, and it becomes a nightmare, in my opinion. On SoundCloud, you can hear this very clearly now. But even more people, non-professional, I would say, DJs, especially miss the square. That is, they end up in the middle of a musical phrase, and it’s a disaster! So this constant “hunt for the square”: “hit the square,” catch the flight. In reality, we missed the flight a couple of times. And they told us: “Sorry, your seats, which SWISS had reserved for the filming you just saw, the plane took off 3 minutes ago, but we’ll seat you very comfortably in first class… up front.” And I was like: “Ahhh, this is a catastrophe!” They were like: “Why? We are upgrading you!” “Well, we absolutely need economy class. You see, our film is very economical.” They were like: “How come? We’ve never seen someone unhappy about being upgraded to first class. You don’t even want business class?!” “No, absolutely not.” And we would ask passengers from economy class: “Excuse me…” The first person: “Are you on row… Ah, we need this row, please move to business.” The woman: “How is that? Why? What did I do?” “Ma’am, get up and go!”
00:06:18 Maria MUKHINA: “Give us a seat by the wing.”
00:06:23 Anatoly IVANOV: Because this was agreed with the management, the top management of SWISS, and even higher-up — Lufthansa, which bought them at some point. So, we have our square… bag. With which he always travels, travels, and travels. Plus, what’s in that bag? Square record sleeves. Plus… another trick with the name. It’s like a window into his life! A square one. Through which we actually see how his weekdays go, what he does. Or rather, doesn’t do.
00:07:16 Maria MUKHINA: Thank you. And who is the main character in this film? Because it sometimes seems that it’s Pushkarev, and then… the bag. What is it for you?
00:07:26 Anatoly IVANOV: For me and Pushkarev, the idea was initially to make a film, primarily, about the music that plays. If you, in general, watch the film, it’s what carries everything else. Plus, well, Pushkarev carries this music all the time in his bag. So, he’s the main character. The bag carries the main character. So, the bag is the second main character. And the third main character is Pushkarev himself. Pushkarev himself is not exactly the main character, but rather, the archetype of the DJ is the main character. That is, professional DJs… Maybe we have professional DJs here? A few professional DJs tried to make it, but they all start playing soon, so it’s quite difficult on weekends. When they watch this film, they get scared. That is, they start thinking: “Holy crap, why am I doing all this?” And when they see these trips with some Romanians, with broken windshields, or how they are met at the airport by some strangers who neither beep, nor meh, nor cock-a-doodle-doo, saying: “Hello! Are you DJ? Yes? Oh! Proceed here.” It’s unclear what they’ll decide there, somewhere, in a dark village or what? So, professional DJs say: “We have never seen a film that shows our profession so truthfully. Because all previous films shot on this topic are mostly mega-glamorous. Everything is super amazing: women, drugs… Like Berlin Calling or some Deutsche Telekom Slices that came out. But to show the bare truth of how it really is, including clubs where maybe you’ve seen, there are clubs where everything is wonderful, people: “Aaaaa! Pushkarev!!!” And there are clubs where everything is pretty shady, and the people are high on something and dance like this. In general, Pushkarev, when he came out after each performance, I would ask: “Well? How was it?”
00:10:06 Anatoly IVANOV: “No way! No way!” That is, he was very dissatisfied, and we decided to include this piece as well — pieces of clubs where, in general… Hmm… not so great.
00:10:21 Maria MUKHINA: Unsuccessful.
00:07:26 Anatoly IVANOV: So-so. That is, for me as a director… It was not an easy decision. Because the film loses some energy, power, and drive from this. But if you only leave the most wonderful, amazing, positive, you get a distorted image. That is, an illusion. The illusion that existed before I even thought about making a film about a DJ. It would only confirm that everything is perfect for DJs. And not everything is perfect for them, just like in any profession. I think there are people here, I hope, with more useful professions than DJs or, even worse, directors. Well, like any profession, there are days when everything is great, but most days, in general, it’s average.
00:11:26 Maria MUKHINA: Practice.
00:11:27 Anatoly IVANOV: Practice, yes! Preparation for the best.
00:11:31 Maria MUKHINA: Obviously, this is a good example of an independent auteur project. Tell me, why was this topic chosen for your first full-length feature film?
00:11:44 Anatoly IVANOV: Why this one? Firstly, because I initially thought: okay, I need to make a feature film. I went to Wikipedia. Because I had absolutely no idea how to make a film. Before that, I made a short film, where I finally realized: oh damn, it turns out there is editing? That is, I was 31 years old. Before that, I thought they shoot everything in one take, just set up a camera, and there you go, “Star Wars”! “Star Wars” or “Battleship Potemkin,” which, by the way, Time Out is right here in front of us. And suddenly they tell me: “No, it’s all cuts and stuff.” Okay, I was 31 and didn’t even know. Alright! So I didn’t know anything. And when I go to Wikipedia — that is, I didn’t study filmmaking, producing, and so on… The first thing you read about is money. Money, money, money, money. So, 5 million for this, 10 million for that. Euros, not rubles! I’m like: “Ah, okay, that’s a lot of money. But why?” The first thing you find out is the most expensive thing — is people. I thought: I’m a former photographer, photojournalist. And among us photojournalists, in general, the most expensive thing is to buy a camera. Then everything else is paid for. That is, flights, transportation, food. You buy a camera and everything is great! Well, a MacBook Pro. And here it turns out that an ARRI Alexa or some other professional apparatus — is nothing! That is, 60,000 euros. And what is 60,000 euros? It's nothing in the world of cinema, as it turns out. It turns out, in the world of cinema, it’s the people you have to pay. That is, actors, primarily. Their assistants, their, what’s it called, make-up artists. This is a more Russian… Russian-friendly comrade, unlike me!
00:13:53 Maria MUKHINA: The budget for a film is very long and expensive.
00:13:57 Anatoly IVANOV: That is, I don’t know, maybe 5,000 lines in the budget. I thought: okay, fine, is there a way to somehow reduce it?
00:14:12 Anatoly IVANOV: And the first thing that came to my mind: what if we make a film without actors? Then we don’t have to pay them for food, for work. What if we make a film without any special lighting? What if we make a film without sound engineers, without people who focus? Without… Without almost everything, what will we get? Well, what we get is a documentary, because there it is, life, you turn on the camera, and let’s shoot! So I decided: okay, if it’s feature-length, it will be a documentary. But what should the documentary be about? Then I went to Wikipedia to see what documentaries are usually made about? They usually make them about some war, some epidemics, great scientists. All dead, usually. Long ago, all the Van Goghs and such. I thought: okay, I don’t want this; I want about today. That’s one. And two — I also found out that directors, good directors, work similarly to photojournalists. That is, they prepare for a project for a long time and thoroughly. And they mainly shoot what they know well. That is, Michael Mann, when he shot “Heat” — translated as “Схватка” in Russian — he prepared for 15 years. He wrote the script, met with various inmates and authorities, found out how things were with the cops, what’s going on. 15 years, just to start shooting something.
00:15:54 Anatoly IVANOV: So I decided: okay, great, what do I know well? I know the techno industry well. I started listening to techno when I was 14 years old. That is, in 1994. And since then, I have photographed a lot; I know what it gives as an image. How it works as music, okay, I have a musical education. And I decided to find out, okay, what has been filmed? And here’s where, as I already said, it turned out that very little has been filmed, and there is a huge informational gap. There are no films about how it actually is. I thought: wait a minute! We need to fill this gap and make a film about a DJ. And make it realistically. Make it not about how amazing, unique, and miraculous he is. Rather about the fact that this is a profession that is not much different from any other profession. That is, one that requires constant effort, constant work, and is often quite tedious. That’s how the idea was born. Then Pushkarev comes to visit me in Paris, sits on my couch. I say to him: “Listen, Pushkarev, you are a great DJ! I have a lot of your mixes, very beautiful music, let’s make a film about you?”
00:17:32 Anatoly IVANOV: Pushkarev immediately jumps up from the couch and starts to quickly wash my dishes. All of them! I thought: ooo, an interesting effect! And immediately asks: “Okay, why me, and how much will it cost?” As a novice producer, I say: “Well, we need to buy a camera. Canon 5D. I heard it’s good! I'll calculate it!” I open my MacBook, do the math in Excel. “20,000 euros! Is that okay?” “Should be enough!”
00:18:08 Maria MUKHINA: But it wasn’t enough!
00:18:08 Anatoly IVANOV: It wasn’t enough! Absolutely not enough! Pushkarev is like: “What, 20 grand and that's it?!” And then: “Yeah, okay! We’ll find it! Twenty grand, come on! It’s fine!” Well, anyway, he stops washing my dishes; I only have 3 plates in Paris. And we began looking for 20,000 euros. I can immediately jump ahead and say that the film did not cost 20,000 euros. It cost… In general, I stopped counting when it crossed the 100,000 euros mark. So, that’s what, 7 million rubles. Right? Approximately. If the exchange rate is 70 now. What's the current exchange rate?
00:18:47 Maria MUKHINA: 74.
00:18:48 Anatoly IVANOV: 75? Okay, so 75 times 100 thousand. A lot! A lot. At some point, I decided to stop counting. And, so, we’re so grateful to our wonderful financier, the producer in Russia, who tolerated this foolishness of mine. Because when I rushed in and said: “Listen, 20 grand, is that fine?!” He says: “That seems a bit low!” That is, he’s not a mega-specialist in cinema, but even he felt that something was off. Since then, Mukhina has developed some very complicated formulas. When I tell her a price, I still have these problems. I say: “Well. It’s fine! We’ll shoot it! How much? 2 million! Why?” She multiplies, multiplies, and she gets the perfect realistic figure needed to shoot. The same goes for the time required. That is, when I say to her: “Well, I need 40 minutes to get dressed and ready.” She multiplies, multiplies, and says: “Okay, we leave then.” It works! I don’t know how she does it, but that’s the joy and fun, I would say in English, of working in film, because it’s a team. A team of completely different people solving problems in different ways. And if there’s one fool, someone will back you up. Someone wiser will say: “Oh, there is something more reasonable!”
00:20:37 Maria MUKHINA: Well, speaking of professions and teams, on this project, you seemed to play almost every role. You were the director, the cinematographer, the sound engineer, the editor, and you chose the music — you did everything yourself. Please tell us, why did you make this choice: did you not trust anyone, or did you want to optimize your budget? Or was it some desire to control?
00:21:04 Anatoly IVANOV: Of course, I’m a control freak!!! Yes, yes! And so the credits would only have me, me, everywhere me, yes me!
00:21:11 Maria MUKHINA: Got it! In short, it’s egocentrism!
00:21:16 Anatoly IVANOV: No, it’s purely economic imperatives again. I wanted to make a beautiful film with quality sound, great music, and good editing. When I approached people: “Listen, I have this amazing…” They’re like: “Oh, Ivanov decided to go into film, it must be something mind-blowing! Super, fine, what's the project? And how much time, mainly?” I said: “Well, the shooting is for 12 months.” In the end, it turned out shorter: 10. And I’m very proud of myself. Post-production, of course, stretched out. So it turned out to be a year instead of my anticipated six months. People were like: “Ivanov, do you think I will shoot for you for these 10 months? And how much are you ready to pay me?” I’m like: “But it’s enthusiasm, love for art! We’ll drink water, breathe, do pranayama.” Well, I got a “no” from one, “no” from another, and in the end, I realized that I’d have to do a lot myself. Although now, when I work on the projects that followed, I try to let others unfold as much as possible. Because in cinema, this opportunity for a director to indicate a corridor, to set the direction within this corridor for people who can express themselves quite freely within this framework — it’s wonderful! And you can sleep more, because we hardly slept, including with Pushkarev. So, in general, it was a technical necessity, and some situations were mega tough. For example, when I was filming all these car rides, when Pushkarev just went out somewhere in Moscow or somewhere even worse, on the road… And he’s like: catching the first taxi he sees. I’m like: “Pushkarev! What about permission? What if…?” And he’s like: “We have to go! We’re going to be late!”
00:23:48 Anatoly IVANOV: And the first person who stops, we just jump into the car. I have a camera, this microphone, all that. And we’re like: “We’re making a movie!” The guy there, I don’t know how he was, end of shift, he’s all: “Uhhhhh.” And here we are! And he’s like: “What’s this? What movie?” We’re like: “How about you participate? A feature film, festivals, fame, we’ll put you in the credits, all that.” During this time, I had to focus and set up the sound, of course, the guy was shouting in horror or started crying, or we went the wrong way because he completely lost any idea of where he was: and now he’s in a movie, in paradise. Well, I had to establish contact with him like, “Hey-hey, it’s great, how long have you been driving passengers in Moscow?” And so on. My brain was constantly splitting into pieces.
00:24:48 Maria MUKHINA: In the end, you lost your hair, as far as I know.
00:24:50 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes, in the end! Many friends told me: take care of yourself, you need to monitor your health. I was like: fine, fine! And then someone told me: “When I was doing similar projects, I lost all my hair!” By the way, I had long curly hair. And when we were filming in Saint Petersburg, which was the first month of shooting, the guys were making behind-the-scenes. What do we call it?
00:25:26 Maria MUKHINA: Here it’s called “backstage.”
00:25:29 Anatoly IVANOV: We didn’t have a stage, but we had a lot of back. Everyone saw: Pushkarev was going like this: back and back. There was a lot of back, but not much stage. And then they show it to me after a month, and I’m like: “Oh my God, what is this white thing shining through?” And my assistants, especially the girls, were like: “Well, we didn’t want to tell you, but…” And I’m like: “Alright, Pushkarev, you were shaving over there!” You saw that, right? “Give me your razor now, we’ll shave it!” And all the women in the team — because we ended up forming a team — they were like: “Nooo, Ivanov, what are you doing, curls!” And I’m like: “Shave it!” And since then, the stress level hasn’t really dropped because the film/commercial thing, they love this stress. In photography, photojournalism, there wasn’t such stress. Even when some bombs are flying at you, it’s somehow calmer. Because it’s clear: now they will kill you, well, okay. But here, some constant…
00:26:44 Maria MUKHINA: But here there are revisions!
00:26:45 Anatoly IVANOV: Here are the revisions. Here are these crazy legal contracts all the time. For example, to get a distribution certificate here, it turned out I need to recall the law. Everything! What I studied 20 years ago.
00:27:03 Maria MUKHINA: And remember the law of all countries.
00:27:05 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes, yes, yes. To start with it myself because I went to a lawyer and said: listen, I need a “contract”… He says: “No problem, the first consultation — 2,000 euros.” And I somehow didn’t have that in the budget! Ahem!
00:27:24 Maria MUKHINA: Maybe someone has questions from the audience? Otherwise, we’re just chatting here.
00:27:28 Public: I have one. Is there any way out of “Kvadrat” at all?
00:27:34 Anatoly IVANOV: I think — no. As a director, I think that in Pushkarev’s case, it’s his destiny. We are all unique individuals, each optimized for some spectrum of life activities. That is, as it happened, somehow the parents did their best, plus upbringing, plus what the social environment was — I forgot the word in Russian… And Pushkarev, he was lucky! That is, he discovered early, still in school, that he’s good, specifically, at DJing. As you saw, he can sleep anywhere. I couldn’t sleep. Well, plus I was filming all this. But even when I turned off the camera, I tried to twitch like Pushkarev… and then “zzz.” But I twitched similarly but could not sleep. Everything was shaking, and… So I am not optimized for such a kind of activity. And he is optimized. And he still lives, and in general, yes, he suffers and so on, but his psyche and body are optimized for this. And so when we talked about this, he said that he found himself and will not betray himself. So, in general… no… DJs, as long as they can, work, work, work, work. Like this, in a square, to infinity, to death.
00:29:24 Public: So if he suffers, why did he choose this profession? Your opinion?
00:29:34 Anatoly IVANOV: My opinion, by the way, coincides with Pushkarev’s opinion in that… In general, I would say that all creative workers do this, despite… the suffering because otherwise they can’t. That is, a good creative worker rarely does something out of pleasure. He rather does it because otherwise, he goes crazy. Pushkarev has an education — an accountant.
00:30:15 Public: [Laughter]
00:30:16 Anatoly IVANOV: So, what would have happened to this person if he started doing accounting? To this day, by the way, I explain to him what VAT is, how to transfer it from one account to another because I have a business school background. It turned out that I explain to the accountant. But he would have drunk himself to death, or got hooked on drugs, or something else. The same with me, when I start doing something non-creative, that’s it, my stomach starts to hurt. And seriously, to the hospital. Or my head, or something else. That is, I feel absolutely out of any life context. Therefore, this is rather a choice by which you survive. And pleasure is still a bonus that appears when there is a connection with the audience, which dances. When this audience was absolutely sluggish an hour ago and didn’t want anything, and then it starts to shake a little. By the way, when I was editing, I was horrified because people, it turns out, shake out of rhythm, somehow randomly. That is, I thought: okay, what to focus on? The fact that one person is right, and 20 around are completely wrong and unclear how? People even clap out of sync. We tried with Pushkarev, like, let’s clap out of sync! We must at least understand what’s happening. We couldn’t because we have this rhythm… In general, that’s the situation with the choice. But when it works out, then you want to strive and suffer for the next time. Well, and plus a person, I mean generally, homo sapiens, they have such a thing, “hope dies last.” That is, now I’ll go to another club, and there! And another club, and there, and there, and there! Well, plus the rationality of the same Pushkarev, he has less than, say, a director, who tends to analyze everything, break it down into scenarios. Sometimes even make wrong budgets. Therefore, it is difficult for him to step back and look at himself from the outside: “Okay, what percentage of clubs really gave me great pleasure? There, where it’s 0.5%. Is my life worth it?” Well, it’s not his…
00:33:22 Public: Okay, different question: what’s his egoism? All people are egoists.
00:33:27 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes. Absolutely.
00:33:28 Public: So what is the specific egoism of Pushkarev here?
00:33:33 Anatoly IVANOV: “What is Pushkarev’s egoism here?” Interesting, actually!
00:33:48 Public: Well, he catches this pleasure, he likes it or not, he catches it, so what is it? How does it happen? That is, he suffers and yet he doesn’t give it up.
00:33:56 Anatoly IVANOV: I think that, firstly, he feels that… it’s not given to everyone. That is, he is chosen, and that’s exactly how it is. Technically speaking, when you have talent, and you then bring this talent to the level of mastery through work, you feel, as an egoist, that, “Oh, how good I am! How great I am!” Plus, a really positive trait of Pushkarev is that he is a hard worker. You saw it yourselves. That is, he… I saw some terrible things when Pushkarev played an 8-hour set: he put on a record… you saw how he changes them? So, when it ends, he puts on a record and… falls! Falls right there by the console, somewhere here is his bag, he just hugs it and sleeps.
00:35:00 Anatoly IVANOV: Sleeps for those 7 minutes, then — up, stands up, puts on another record, mixes it, another record plays, he removes this one, falls and sleeps. This is an amazing, completely… What is it? A function? When… Well, I think, another aspect is… diligence, plus, what he can always be praised for: this person from the DeepMix.ru team, which maybe some have heard of, formed in Moscow, he recorded the most sets. And among Moscow DJs, why did Pushkarev interest me? By the way, Pushkarev has nothing to do with it. Pushkarev did not call me, did not say: “Oh, I want to make a film about myself.” No, it’s my idea entirely. I was interested in the fact that he is constantly going somewhere. Going and going, going and going. We tried at least a little to communicate together now. It didn’t work. We’re like: well, in fact, we meet once every 3 years. No, he still goes and goes, goes and goes. That is, he is mega-hardworking, and I think egoism… egoism is quite good. When there is, so to speak, reinforcement… constant validation. You get some reward because of how you are — it's wonderful. Plus, I think, social media and still, feedback from the public, that he is a great DJ, they give him likes, pluses, love, and so on… It’s felt. This is still a profession that works with a large number of people. And this attention from a large number of people, I think, is quite useful for an egoist.
00:37:14 Public: Thank you! Thank you.
00:37:16 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes, you’re welcome.
00:37:16 Public: How did you come up with the film and all its little details? For example, the scene in the elevator.
00:37:23 Anatoly IVANOV: The scene in the elevator, ooo!
00:37:25 Public: The expression of the face, the emotions, how was it all? How did you come up with it all?
00:37:33 Anatoly IVANOV: Elevator? I love that elevator from Soviet times, from childhood! I used to get stuck in it all the time, so as I already said, directors work with what they know, first of all. The first thing we do, as directors, is write the script. Despite the fact that this is a documentary film, a script was written for it. And already in the script, I’m like: Okay! There must be an elevator somewhere! Moreover, a squeaky, terrible, scary one, which has now been replaced everywhere. I’m very upset that Moscow is becoming like Europe or the States, where there are these same silent, shiny, steel marvels of technology. But here: “Eeeeee! Class!”
00:38:22 Public: And the buttons…
00:38:23 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes, and these buttons, the buttons! Moreover, when we were children and rode the elevator, every time we passed a floor, we pressed the buttons again so that they all popped out simultaneously on the first floor. Buaa!!! Class! Again, from the 16th floor, we go down, and there, 15, 14. This is written in the script: I want an elevator, I want this, I want that. And it is prepared very carefully because simply arriving somewhere with a camera, any producer will most likely fire you. If you arrive unprepared. Usually, the producer will not even allow you to go somewhere unprepared. He’ll say: “Thank you, but we’ll still take another director. One who prepares before spending money. Because when you arrive somewhere to shoot, the meter starts running, and any action, any hesitation like… “Hmmm, maybe left, maybe right? Maybe we’ll shoot tomorrow?” They pay people’s salaries, they agree on locations for exactly this date. Therefore, you have to plan as much as possible. I was lucky — I have these films — all of them — they are already ready in my head. That is, before I start shooting something somewhere, they’re already finished, they have sound, they have a picture, they are edited, with credits. Everything, everything, everything is ready. Then I have a very painful process: I have to write it all down on a piece of paper for other people: “What’s going to happen…” Because they’re not in my head, unfortunately. They need to understand that the guy has something in his head, not some hollow ringing emptiness and Om mantras. And so this is quite a tedious, methodical process, where as many details as possible are written down. The more details, the better. And then something happens: you prepared, prepared, prepared, moreover, all normal directors do this, the same Tarkovsky, I don’t know, Bergman, someone else. But all of them, including me, arrive, and it turns out that… “Oh! And Pushkarev’s expression is not at all what it should be. That is, a wax guy, no expressions except for a poker face.” “Pushkarev, can you do this?” No, he can’t. You have to come up with something, some other alternatives. And this happens to all, all directors. That is, if you take the same Tarkovsky, when they were shooting “Mirror,” suddenly a hut nearby caught fire. That was not in any script. And Tarkovsky was like: “Oh, it’s raining, the hut is on fire! Super, let’s do the same!” And then they set it on fire on purpose. Well, that wasn’t planned. And there were a lot of such situations. That is, we arrive, now it will be. And it’s not now, and it won’t be. It’s completely different, but you need to quickly transform what you intended. And it often turns out better than intended. The main thing is not to remain like, how to say it better, like sculptures! That is, “So, we have a plan, I want it only like this, this, this. And the hut that’s on fire, put it out! And build a new one on this place and turn off the rain that’s pouring on it, what the hell is this?!”
00:42:19 Maria MUKHINA: That is, there are elements of feature cinema here, elements of documentary cinema, and improvisation, right?
00:42:26 Anatoly IVANOV: Absolutely! Yes. That is, when I thought about a purely documentary film, I realized that it is impossible to convey the experience of being a DJ in a documentary film. That is, if they show you: “So, here the DJ takes vinyl, record No. 1, puts it on, it starts spinning. On the spinning disk, the needle is placed, reading the vibrations, transforming…” Well, okay, great. It turns out to be a wonderful guide on how to use vinyl, a vinyl player, and how to mix music. But that’s Lynda.com / LinkedIn Learning. I don’t know if they’re known in Russia or not. These are tutorials! Tutorials on how to be a DJ. The film is not about that. The film is about how DJs really live. That is, not about the technical side, how to mix. This is quite simple. Those who raised their hands playing instruments, playing even on, let’s take something simpler, a six-string guitar is much more difficult than mixing records. Playing, therefore, how many octaves does a piano have, or let’s take something tougher, some kind of organ, is a hundred times more difficult. And making a film about how to just mix two records, I didn’t want to. I wanted to make a film about the fact that any profession has not only some positive but also negative aspects. This is what makes this profession different from others.
00:44:27 Maria MUKHINA: I think you managed to do it. Are there any other questions?
00:44:31 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes, go ahead.
00:44:33 Public: Did Pushkarev, the main character himself, ask to be shown in a certain way, or was he just presented as…?
00:44:43 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes! Let’s go back to that wonderful scene at my place in Paris. I have a “submarine,” how many, it turns out, 13 square meters. Yes, yes, yes, including the toilet, including the bath, the kitchen, my workshop, the dining room. We listened here to Preobrazhensky, wonderful, who is getting denser. He said: “Okay, fine, let’s shoot, the idea is wonderful, but it’s important for me that it is the way it really is.” That is, his first request: I want you to shoot it truthfully. And it turned out that if I shoot him using documentary methods, that is, set up the camera, took an interview — it doesn’t come out truthfully. It doesn’t turn out to be the way it really is. And I thought, well, what a strange paradox this is? I started reading about feature films, and it turned out that in feature films, there is a much wider range of tools that allow you to convey the truth. Kieslowski wrote very well about this at the time. Krzysztof Kieslowski, a Polish director, wonderful, who started with documentary films and then went into feature films. He said that he ran into some ceiling in documentary cinema because much in documentary cinema is impossible. It’s impossible, for example, to make people have sex or do something else. Real people. That is, who really exist, who have names and surnames. Then they go, I don’t know… “Oh, we saw you naked!” And so on. Therefore, he began to shoot his trilogy “Bleu. Blanc. Rouge,” and so on. We immediately decided that some parts would be documentary, and some parts would have to be shot in a standard feature film way. That is, takes. Take 1… For example, when he rides in that wonderful elevator. What do you think, did he do it once? Got in and everything worked out right away? Not at all! I get in, and here Pushkarev stands in the wrong corner. Nothing is visible, darkness, a dark corner, and probably Pushkarev is hiding in it.
00:47:19 Anatoly IVANOV: I’m like: well, hello! “Cut!!!” Because I usually speak English. So, get out, press. Pushkarev pressed the wrong floor, started to get out, oh, ended up on the 5th floor. “Okay, cut!” Already 2 takes are cut. Next take: Pushkarev stood, and something started itching… terribly. Next take! That is, this scene was reshot thousands of times. And it looks so clear: in-out, in-out. We walked through this staircase. Moreover, I came to Moscow several times to shoot this staircase. For him to get in and out with this bag, everything worked out. So that everything is focused the way I like it, and so on.
00:48:12 Anatoly IVANOV: Some things didn’t work out to shoot in an artistic way. Unfortunately, airplanes! I kept asking SWISS: “We want 2 landings. So that the first take, and if I don’t like it, we take off immediately… But for some reason, the passengers immediately yelled: “Wait a minute, we have a transfer, and my mom is waiting for me there. These are 300 people, these are real passenger flights, not empty Airbus A320s. And I had to shoot it all in one take: either it worked out or it didn’t. And there were moments, we shot a lot more planes than you see. Because I failed a lot. But, thank God, no one sees it.
00:49:00 Anatoly IVANOV: So! That is, it’s a combination of two such methods. Plus pure improvisation. Improvisation, some moments, when, there… I don’t know, Pushkarev shakes someone’s hand. Pushkarev himself didn’t remember later. Well, we’re watching: “What’s this, who am I shaking hands with there in the audience?” I say: “Pushkarev, do you not even remember what you were doing there?” No, he doesn’t remember. In the subway, people were walking back and forth, also a lot of absolutely pure improvisation. When he goes to St. Petersburg and someone tells a joke about gratitude. We’re sitting, or rather lying. There’s a woman below, it turns out, an editor of a magazine in St. Petersburg, starts telling a joke. I didn’t have this in the script, to make some parable about how grateful Pushkarev is to fate, to the director, after all. And the lady starts telling a joke. Well, I didn’t plan this at all. Left it in.
00:50:14 Anatoly IVANOV: Conversations at friends’ place — this was completely unplanned. It was mega stressful for me. Because in my script, it said “visiting friends, social life.” It turned out that Pushkarev doesn’t have much of a social life. And what he does have, is this kind of, like, “Oh, Ivanov, get ready, let’s go visit some dudes.” I’m like: “What dudes, how does this even look?” “Well, I read that you need something hipster-like. And beautiful. With a view of Moscow.” Well, okay, I arrive at the scene. People I see for the first time in my life. How will they talk? What will they talk about? We talked for about 4 hours, probably. And for those 4 hours, they mostly talked about who’s a jerk and what each one is guilty of, and so on. That is, I was like, damn, it’s unrealistic to put this into the film: “And here’s Petya! What a jerk! I come to Kazantip, and there’s this and that.” Very interesting conversations, in my opinion. That is, if I were making such a harsh documentary film about how everyone is a jerk — yes, super, but the film is not about that. Plus, it’s unknown who would later have their balls shot off for this. First of all, Pushkarev, then probably the director. Therefore, I had to cut, cut, cut a lot. They discussed the cops. They discussed this and that, and the fifth, and the tenth. But I didn’t have something like: “So, guys, here’s the text, you’re actors, read!” That is, they really discussed these daytime parties… This was not planned: “so, discussion of daytime parties, then cocaine use…” No. It’s pure improvisation. And maybe it’s visible during editing. I had to get very bogged down later to cut some pieces. Or when a guy on the left looks at the camera and laughs beautifully, only it looks so that it’s impossible to insert it into a beautiful film.
00:52:45 Public: It’s appropriate to ask: there, in one scene, Pushkarev sits on the riverbank with a blade of grass…
00:52:49 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes, Kama
00:52:50 Public: Is this such a documentary depiction… of his flashbacks, which he actually experiences like that? Or?
00:52:57 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes. Exactly.
00:53:00 Public: But he didn’t say this means that he imagines it like that.
00:53:04 Anatoly IVANOV: No, but that’s already my idea because I’m interested in where the person came from. Usually, a person does not come from nowhere. They have some background, some childhood. And this childhood, it took place in the Pre-Urals. Including these endless, enormous forests. The Kama River, which flows from the Perm region down, down, down. That is, Pushkarev, his music, his mixes, reflect this Russian nature, the starry sky, and so on. Therefore, when he told me: “My music is so deep… the Russian soul…” I’m like: “Aha, the Russian soul, wonderful, wonderful, deep. So where did you live? Where are you from?” “I’m from Votkinsk.” I’m like: “What is Votkinsk? Where is it?” “It’s Izhevsk.” “And where’s that?”
00:54:17 Public: In Russia.
00:54:18 Anatoly IVANOV: Well, yes, in Russia! He says: “It’s a town!” We arrive, and I’m like: “Where’s the town? I see a village.” “It’s not a village, this is Kirov Street.” “What street… Kirov? Here I see… ditches.” “This is Kirov Street.” There are no toilets, not even a land phone lines. That is, I was somewhat shocked. Therefore, I decided to show this. Because wherever he is, he now lives, be it in Berlin, he still has this Russian nature, it comes through. And his constant desire is to get back to nature. That is, he works in big metropolises, but he always wants to be in nature, cows grazing. What else grazes? Because I am a very much a city person. And with a view of the mountains, or some river, lakes. But he mostly sleeps through all these mountains-lakes. I tell him: “Look, here’s Switzerland, come on, Pushkarev, wake up!” Slept through everything. I decided to include it in the film. And he constantly recalls it in real life. About how it was and how it may become someday when he becomes mega-rich. Well, I don’t know when that will happen?
00:55:48 Anatoly IVANOV: Let’s, let’s finish on the note that I hope this will happen someday, he will have a wonderful little house with a personal airport and cows, with which he will fly on a small plane faster and more efficiently than now, through Zurich. And he will rejoice in nature and the music that comes from this nature.
00:56:14 Maria MUKHINA: Yes. On this note, we’ll wrap up. Thank you very much for spending this evening with us.
00:56:19 Anatoly IVANOV: Thank you.
00:56:20 Maria MUKHINA: We are very pleased.
/ RU Moscow / 2019-04-13
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