00:00:04 Anatoly IVANOV: That is, we had filming permits and so on, but these horror-movie attributes, are present. Interestingly, in Moscow the pressure was much stronger than in St. Petersburg. In St. Petersburg, everything is kind of chill and relax. But in Moscow: “Hey, your permits?” Moreover, they appeared out of nowhere.
00:00:23 Andrey PUSHKAREV: No, they appeared from somewhere. They would even get out of the booth. They would swoop down on me all the time, because…
00:00:30 Anatoly IVANOV: Because he’s big!
00:00:31 Andrey PUSHKAREV: It was like: I would get out of the car first, and Anatoly would then get out with this huge device, and they’re like “whaam!” And I would man all our defenses myself.
00:00:40 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes. And I’d catch up, like, “We have a permit! Look here! Kremlin Kremlin Kremlin!” And they would go: “Ahh, OK, fine!”
00:00:47 Yulia SHAGELMAN: OK, we get it, the genre of this film, in reality, is no documentary, it’s a military epic with elements of…
00:00:54 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Set in the post-Soviet universe.
00:00:56 Yulia Shagelman: Yes, the post-Soviet context.
00:00:58 Anatoly IVANOV: When I was studying the various genres: documentary, fiction… What caught my interest was, this possibility in cinema to create an experience inside the head of everyone sitting here, remotely. And the arsenal of these tools, is much broader in fiction films, rather than in a typical documentary, where there is a voiceover, an interview, archival photography, video, and so on. In fiction films, through manipulation, because, in essence, a movie, it’s me manipulating you! Constantly. That is, everything that you just saw, it’s not by chance. It’s made with millimeter precision. In order to elicit specific emotions from you. Emotions of rejection, emotions of “Damn! When will this end?” Very boring, loud, monotonous or, inversely, fun.
00:02:02 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Maybe, the emotion of immersion? On the contrary: I do not want this to end?
00:02:07 Andrey PUSHKAREV: There were such emotions as well, yes.
00:02:08 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes. But it’s all…
00:02:10 Yulia SHAGELMAN: «The show must go on.»
00:02:12 Anatoly IVANOV: …it’s fabricated, that is, done on purpose. And, of course, we shot some scenes in absolutely documentary fashion. That is, especially, the planes’ landings, which we couldn’t, like, oh, I didn’t like something, take 2, let’s get the 300 passengers, they… What do they have? A connection? A transfer? Guys, sorry, but we’re taking off again. A321 Swiss Airlines takes off after touchdown. Therefore, it’s purely documentary footage, those endless airplane wings, OK, this is documentary filmmaking. But the subway, plus the clubs, and… I don’t know, the scenes at home and so on… those are multiple takes, typical fiction film techniques, which create the illusion of absolute authenticity.
00:03:01 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Don’t forget about the clubs, there, nothing was…
00:03:04 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes, there as well!
00:03:05 Andrey PUSHKAREV: …nothing was shot in 1 take.
00:03:06 Anatoly IVANOV: Accordingly, many takes, that I had to edit in post… And a very important aspect, I had to take advantage… of fiction film techniques for sound design. That is, just to grab and roll the on-location club sound… That’s impossible! He plays… his DJ set, it’s 6 hours. Well, at least 2 hours long.
00:03:32 Andrey PUSHKAREV: 2 to 3!
00:03:34 Anatoly IVANOV: How many clubs were there? Anyone counted?
00:03:37 Public: A lot…
00:03:38 Anatoly IVANOV: A lot! Exactly, yeah! And if we multiply “a lot” by at least 2 hours, you’d still be here watching it all till morning. So, how to create an illusion in your brain, that, “ooh, we’re watching a club set, he has 3 tracks playing, mixed this and that”. While in reality, only 3 minutes have passed. That is, one techno track is at least…
00:04:01 Andrey PUSHKAREV: 6-7 minutes, or even more.
00:04:03 Anatoly IVANOV: if it’s a 1 track per side, then 10-20. How to make it work musically, so that a musical phrase is not killed? That is, “la-la-la”, instead of “la”, and then suddenly an “eee”! That is, to avoid complete nonsense. We really worked hard on this, and it’s not a documentary approach, really.
00:04:24 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Well, actually, I’m leading exactly to this. Given that this is, yes, not a documentary, I wanted to ask, a silly question, huh? How true is it, actually? That is, how much is this – really, your life? Or maybe now, or then, or in general? That is, how true is this all, really? Or is it, after all, a role you’ve played?
00:04:48 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Well, I can’t call it a role, because I didn’t play, actually. As some have said:
00:04:54 Anatoly IVANOV: He’s a so-so actor, yes, not very…
00:04:55 Andrey PUSHKAREV: A very bad actor! Therefore…
00:04:57 Yulia SHAGELMAN: But in my opinion everything turned out well. At least, the hero seems very authentic…
00:05:01 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Thanks to the director!
00:05:04 Yulia SHAGELMAN: A good actor is always the merit of the director. And a bad one too.
00:05:08 Anatoly IVANOV: Thanks! But we just…
00:05:11 Andrey PUSHKAREV: The question was to me!
00:05:13 Anatoly IVANOV: Oh, sorry! Go on, sure.
00:05:16 Andrey PUSHKAREV: In fact, everything is still like that. Today I flew in from Sochi at 9 a.m. Having slept for several hours, I came here.
00:05:23 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Well, that is, this the life of a DJ, right?
00:05:26 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Yes.
00:05:26 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Sleeping in planes, airports, an empty apartment, with…
00:05:31 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Sometimes, yes. An empty apartment.
00:05:32 Anatoly IVANOV: We’ve we just, at Mukhina’s… Where is Mukhina? We just moved the vinyl records that were… And we put down the same mattress there. That is, now, today we’re April 6, it looks identical! OK, there’s an ironing board which I added today, to iron my shirt. But all the rest? I mean, we enter the room and: damn, it’s Kvadrat movie! How long ago was it? 6 years later?
00:05:56 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Well, it’s been more than 6 years, in any case. I just want to say that… in this situation, this… that’s the reality, actually. The way I imagined this project: it was to show the reverse side of the profession. And most of the colleagues, even, when Anatoly showed the film to someone, were shocked exactly by how real it all looked it’s scary, because it is so in life. And for me personally it was the most important feedback. Because when colleagues recognize this, then it means we didn’t lie, at a minimum.
00:06:26 Yulia SHAGELMAN: That is, this is a movie that warns, children, do not become DJs, really! There will be no sex, drugs and rock-n-roll, but…
00:06:32 Andrey PUSHKAREV: No, there will be, only…
00:06:34 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Aha! I’m anxious to find out more…
00:06:35 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Calm down! Everyone gets into this profession, for his own reasons, whether he understands it or not… That’s all!
00:06:43 Yulia SHAGELMAN: But this is, exactly, where I’m getting at, right? Each one looks for his own reasons in DJing. Because, throughout this film, again, I don’t know how about our viewers, but I had, in fact, one main question: why is he doing this?
00:06:58 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Why, exactly, what?
00:07:00 Yulia SHAGELMAN: What’s this life for? Why the constant life on the road? What’s the point in those endless sunrises and sunsets, not clear where? The weird Romanian villages? Where Dracula might leap from around the corner? What for? Because everyone gets into this profession for something of their own? Why you got into it?
00:07:26 Andrey PUSHKAREV: I have said it in several interviews, I tried to quit. [common laughter of the audience] No, really! It’s true! It happened like that, at least 3 times, when life, figuratively speaking, collapsed in a way that I was ready… enough, that’s it, I give up! But I failed to quit. And now it’s too late to stop.
00:07:44 Yulia SHAGELMAN: So, that is, you “go with the flow”. The question is: what is it? Is it self-expression, is it self-actualization? Is it for… for what? To feel loved? To play music for those Romanians? Or no matter which people, in Sochi, and so on… Or to express yourself through it? That is, to me, to a person, who sits at a desk and writes something there, and then leaves home, I’m curious, what for, really? It’s clear why you didn’t quit. Why did you get in at all?
00:08:21 Andrey PUSHKAREV: By the way, here is a person who, in fact, has played a key role in my, let’s call it: “career.” Here is Natalya KOZLOVA. This person in 1996 has shown me what electronic music is. And from that moment, in fact, my life has changed, a little. And then I liked it so much that, in fact, why not? And as Anatoly says very often: “just in case”.
00:08:47 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes! Just in case! This is also not my quote, it’s a quote from a fine artist [Christine AUGER] in France, who’s asked all the time: “Why are you an artist?” That is, also many hardships and… Myself, as a director… actually the film, is, partly, about me. Because while he slept or ate, incidentally, my sandwiches. Because… Why does he always have 2 sandwiches? Because, that’s my sandwich, which I never ate.
00:09:16 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Finally, the mystery is revealed!
00:09:18 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes!
00:09:19 Yulia SHAGELMAN: That was my next question.
00:09:21 Anatoly IVANOV: He wasn’t given 2 sandwiches because he’s a frequent flyer or something, he has a bonus card. No. I just…
00:09:26 Andrey PUSHKAREV: I had no bonus cards then, they are only now…
00:09:29 Anatoly IVANOV: OK, well… This is also my life! That is, I renounce a lot as well as, really, any working, professional, creative can tell, we have to make constant choices: OK, either sleep or go somewhere. That I flew here, for example, to Moscow? I could have stayed in Paris. It’s +25 C there, apple trees blossom…
00:10:00 Andrey PUSHKAREV: You’re going off tangent!
00:10:01 Anatoly IVANOV: …and so on. But this is a film about those continuous choices, business travel etc. It is universal to any creative professional.
00:10:10 Andrey PUSHKAREV: I would add, actually. Firstly, I feel myself as comfortable now, as you feel behind your desk, probably? Whether you like it or not, but, surely, you feel yourself at the right spot professionally, right?
00:10:23 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Well, yes.
00:10:24 Andrey PUSHKAREV: And this understanding, it also came with years, that I’m at the right place. And, as they say, I don’t want to cheat on myself anymore. And everything else, what you list: the roads, the flights, it’s… the reality that you need, as they say… Not to put up with, but embrace it. Because most people in the industry now, well, let me even say, Madonna, Depeche Mode, any big names, they all earn only when touring.
00:10:50 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Well yeah, obviously…
00:10:51 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Yes! Because the Internet killed everything completely, and therefore, live performances in this case is the only source of income. Therefore, you need to search for whatever methods… I don’t know, do yoga, do sports, take care of your diet. Anything goes to optimize this process. And after many years you arrive at this, sooner or later. So far, I have succeeded. How long will I last – I don’t know.
00:11:17 Yulia SHAGELMAN: How important is crowd feedback? Because, well, we saw those “a lot” clubs, whatever the number of these clubs, and in general, you can see, that it’s not a success everywhere, right? Or, well, I don’t know how appropriate this term is in the case of a DJ work? That is, in some places, people respond to this music, somewhere we get an impression, that they don’t care who is behind the DJ decks and what kind of music plays there, that’s not what they came here for. Maybe it’s also a wrong impression, but somehow it’s there. How important is it, whether the crowd reacts back or not? How much, I don’t know, does it help or turns you on? Or is it just some kind of internal state, when a person creates and he is in it. And all the rest is, I don’t know, just a bonus, important or unimportant?
00:12:08 Andrey PUSHKAREV: I can say one thing: that I believe and what my experience is based on, is sincerity. That is, when you arrive in a country where you have never performed, you don’t know what will be there, right? You can’t predict. And so, how sincere you are with… how could I say it, give yourself, people feel it in any case. And it really works. And everything else is, in my opinion, just… professionalism or unprofessionalism. This is, as it were, the key feature of the profession, let’s call it so, when you can make, let’s call it, records, in this case, tracks, the tools that you have chosen, but can you make people, that you don’t know, dance? Well, for me it is, as it were, the highest level. There are DJs who can do that. There are those who cannot. There are those who only play hits, figuratively speaking, that work. But… The point is that, the main understanding, is that we, I mean, myself and my colleagues, we work for people. That is, now the hype has gone up, because nowadays there’s a lot of bullshit around DJs. Like, status, all that… A bunch of all kinds of personas, but the only important result is: you can do it or you cannot. You make people dance, or you don’t make people dance. Everything else fades against this background, because you can create any stage persona. So, it’s like that, it seems to me.
00:13:31 Yulia SHAGELMAN: So, in the end, music is the most important thing?!
00:13:34 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Sure! Without a doubt! If there was no music, there would be nothing.
00:13:37 Anatoly IVANOV: And well, in the film, really, the main character is not Pushkarev, the main character is music.
00:13:43 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Right!
00:13:44 Anatoly IVANOV: Music plays… Huh?
00:13:45 Public: The bag!
00:13:46 Anatoly IVANOV: Oh, the bag – yes! Which, by the way… the bag, it’s square, also to add to your question, it’s also inside of a square!
00:13:53 Yulia SHAGELMAN: There’s 2 of them, there are 2 of them!
00:13:55 Anatoly IVANOV: Yeah, and… The bag carries music! And, in fact, music is sort of a… a weight that physically and psychologically constantly, really, at times, pulls down, then up. That is, it’s present in the life of the man, the DJ, and not just something abstract.
00:14:17 Yulia SHAGELMAN: And how did you even get this idea – to shoot a movie about a DJ? Why about a DJ?
00:14:24 Anatoly IVANOV: “How did the thought come to you?” I got the idea to make a feature film! First of all. Because I shot a short film, completely by accident. And really, I was forced to. The Chinese. Rather tough guys. And then I decided to shoot a feature, to find out how much I like it. And when I started to figure out how the cinema art works, I didn’t know anything! I didn’t even know about film editing… The first thing…
00:14:56 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Were you carrying out experiments on Andrey?!
00:14:58 Anatoly IVANOV: Absolutely!
00:14:59 Andrey PUSHKAREV: He still runs experiments on me.
00:15:01 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes! That’s my specialty!
00:15:02 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Will you have a sequel?
00:15:04 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Many people ask about part 2, but I think that this is unlikely to happen properly.
00:15:09 Anatoly IVANOV: The question that arose even then, was the issue of financing. That is, the only thing that distinguishes cinema very much from all other arts, is the amount of money required to create something. That is, if you are a photographer, or a sculptor, or a painter, or, you write… all kinds of literary works, you don’t need a lot of money. And when you shoot…
00:15:33 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Welllll…
00:15:35 Anatoly IVANOV: Well, you can buy yourself a computer and start writing, but you can’t buy yourself a camera and start shooting. You still need to pay people with whom you work. And when I was choosing the story or even the genre… I simply chose documentary film, as the cheapest. Because, I did not have to pay for the actors. There was no need to pay for makeup. I did not have to pay for their meals and so on. Essentially, documentary cinema is cheaper to produce.
00:16:11 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Well this is understandable, yes, but why…
00:16:13 Anatoly IVANOV: That’s firstly! And secondly – I work, as, in fact, most good directors, with the material that is familiar to them. I started listening to techno music when I was, how old was it? 14 years old. That is, from 1994-95, when there was Ptyuch, Aerodance, club LESS and more. That is, well, at about the same time as Pushkarev. And I just know this universe very well, this subject, this industry. When I started researching: OK, and who shot what about techno, about DJs? To my horror, I noticed 2 types of films. The first is à la “Berlin Calling”, with sex, drugs & techno, everything is very glamorous and… full of completely crazy, abnormal, non-standard situations, that you rarely come across in reality. And the second type is the Deutsche Telekom Slices and similar, with interview of a DJ who says: “I AM VERY COOL! Look, oh oh oh!” And it’s constant self-admiration, but… about the profession, its reality, as it happens, there was nothing. I, as a former journalist — yes-yes — I just saw that there is an information hole. And this hole must be closed, I must tell the story.
00:17:45 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Well, that was then, now, of course…
00:17:48 Anatoly IVANOV: Everyone started to copy our film! Naturally!
00:17:52 Public: And in what year did you shoot it?
00:17:53 Anatoly IVANOV: 2011. Then… And now there’s a bunch of films that also have a bag rolling, this sound…
00:18:01 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Not the bag, but specifically, they began to raise this issue, how dangerous – or not – is this profession? Because, DJing exists for how long? Maybe 20-30 years in total? And in fact, no one did any research. In the sense that how much the psychoemotional state of a person changes over that period. No one dealt with this issue in-depth. There are negative examples when people could not cope. For example, like Avicii, who, I think, was 25. And he died last year, I think. The guy just burned out at work. Literally! But, I had 1 question immediately in my mind: all the relatives, those close, the friends, where were they looking?
00:18:44 Yulia SHAGELMAN: But, for example, in this, in your film, in your collective film, we also don’t see any close relatives and friends, right? It’s rather “A Lone White Sail Gleams”!
00:18:54 Andrey PUSHKAREV: But my friend was the director at that moment, do not forget!
00:18:57 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Yes, and he fed you sandwiches!
00:18:58 Andrey PUSHKAREV: I was supervised.
00:19:00 Anatoly IVANOV: Yes. Yes. Yes! By the way, he’s just mentioned yoga a little bit… Who started teaching him yoga?
00:19:09 Yulia SHAGELMAN: That is, relatively…
00:19:10 Anatoly IVANOV: Because I saw a man who doesn’t do anything, really, for his frail body. Therefore, I tell him: listen, let’s start running together, let’s do hatha yoga in the morning. And this is mandatory before shooting we did hatha yoga together. He suffered, groaned, sweated, and so on. But now he has at least some kind of habit. And I’m happy about that!
00:19:37 Andrey PUSHKAREV: Control.
00:19:38 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Well, that is, yes…
00:19:39 Anatoly IVANOV: That is, it’s a director’s thing: to control all processes constantly. Well-well, why didn’t you brush your teeth? Etc. Well… yes. It’s an occupational hazard.
00:19:52 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Am I bothering you? I already feel like an odd man out!
00:19:57 Andrey PUSHKAREV: No, no, no, let’s get back to you.
00:19:59 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Back to… No, not to me in no case…
00:20:01 Andrey PUSHKAREV: To your questions.
00:20:02 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Detonator, yes? Back to that point of how the industry has changed and so on, maybe it is… those are some things that I can’t catch due to poor familiarity with it? It seemed to me that the film, overall, has very little specificity. It’s not about the techno industry here and now, in 2011 or in some other moment. It is about a person, that is, there’s no zeitgeist. It has to… it can be happening at any moment. This is because, it seems to me… again, I don’t know whether you agree or not, that… when you watch it now, in 2019, we don’t get the impression that this film is 8 years old. That it’s some old junk, or some a retro drama! So. Therefore, is this a conscious decision?
00:20:53 Anatoly IVANOV: Absolutely conscious. When I started studying cinema, the first thing you start reading about is archetypes. About creating something universal. And for me it was important to create an archetype of a DJ. That is, Andrey Pushkarev was talking about his colleagues, a moment ago who, in general, play a slightly different music, who live in other cities who have some other background story, but they are still included in this archetype, and for them it works, because it’s something bigger, than just this one person at a particular point in time. In principle, any, in my opinion, interesting movie, it is… more abstract, more archetypal than some zeitgeist, one moment in time.
00:21:50 Yulia SHAGELMAN: Well, here, in fact, it’s not even a DJ’s archetype, it’s an archetype of a creative person, however cliché that might sound. That is, the archetype of a person who is engaged… in something ephemeral. Something with a stupid word “creativity”, and something that requires all your vital forces from you, concentrated here at this point. If this was the plan, then it certainly succeeded. And, it seems to me, in this sense, the film’s a success.
00:22:23 Anatoly IVANOV: Thank you!
/ RU Moscow / 2019-04-06
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